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Jonestown: The Life and Death of Peoples Temple
Program Transcript
On-screen text : On November 18th, 1978, in Jonestown, Guyana, 909 members of Peoples Temple died in what has been called the largest mass suicide in modern history. Deborah Layton, Peoples Temple Member, Author, Seductive Poison : Nobody joins a cult. Nobody joins something they think is going to hurt them. You join a religious organization, you join a political movement, and you join with people that you really like. Jim Jones Jr., Peoples Temple Member : I think in everything that I tell you about Jim Jones, there is going to be a paradox. Having this vision to change the world, but having this whole undercurrent of dysfunction that was underneath that vision. Jim Jones (archival) : Some people see a great deal of God in my body. They see Christ in me, a hope of glory. Hue Fortson Jr., Peoples Temple Member : He said, “If you see me as your friend, I’ll be your friend. As you see me as your father, I’ll be your father.” He said, “If you see me as your God, I’ll be your God.” Kristine Kravitz, Peoples Temple Member : Jim Jones talked about going to the Promised Land and then, pretty soon, we were seeing film footage of Jonestown. Jim Jones (archival) : Rice, black-eyed peas, Kool-Aid. Kristine Kravitz, Peoples Temple Member : We all wanted to go. I wanted to go.
Grace Stoen, Peoples Temple Member : Peoples Temple truly had the potential to be something big and powerful and great, and yet for whatever reason, Jim took the other road. Jackie Speier, Aide to Congressman Leo Ryan : On the night of the 17th, it was still a vibrant community. I would never have imagined that 24 hours later, they would all be dead. Jim Jones (archival, subtitles) : Die with a degree of dignity! Don’t lay down with tears and agony! It’s nothing to death. It’s just stepping over into another plane. Don’t, don’t be this way. Rebecca Moore, Relative of Peoples Temple Member : I vividly remember the first time that I met Jim Jones. My sister Carolyn had invited my parents and my younger sister and I to visit her in Potter Valley. We came and there was this strange man in her house, and her husband wasn’t there. Annie and I were sent out to go on a walk. When we came back, something had happened. Something terrible had happened, because everyone had red eyes except for Jim Jones. We didn’t really get the story until we were in the car going home. He was carrying on an adulterous relationship with my sister. And because his wife couldn’t relate to him as a wife — that Carolyn had taken over that role. Everything was plausible, except in retrospect, the whole thing seems absolutely bizarre. On-screen text : Peoples Temple Children’s Choir — Welcome (Singing, archival) : Welcome, welcome all of you. Janet Shular, Peoples Temple Member : The first time I visited Peoples Temple, I drove at the urging of a friend — a co-worker — to Redwood Valley.
Garrett Lambrev, Peoples Temple Member : The Peoples Temple services, they had life, they had soul, they had power. We were alive in those services. Claire Janaro, Peoples Temple Member : I would be up jumping in the balcony and clapping my hands. If you came in as a stranger and didn’t know anything about the politics, you were thinking you were entering an old-time religion service. Hue Fortson Jr., Peoples Temple Member : By the time Jones did come out to do his speaking, the table had already been set. Jim Jones (archival) : I represent divine principle, total equality, a society where people own all things in common. Where there is no rich or poor. Where there are no races. Wherever there is people struggling for justice and righteousness, there I am. And there I am involved. Neva Sly Hargrave, Peoples Temple Member : What he spoke about were things that were in our hearts. The government was not taking care of the people. There were too many poor people out there. There were poor children. Jim Jones (archival) : The world is like a human family. The little child may not be able to go and draw a paycheck, but the father guarantees the childcare. The grandmother may not be able to work anymore, but the father and mother guarantees her the right to live. Deborah Layton, Peoples Temple Member, Author, Seductive Poison : Every single person felt that they had a purpose there and that they were exceptionally special. And that is how he brought so many young college kids in, so many older black women in, so many people from diverse backgrounds who realized that there was something bigger than themselves that they needed to be involved in — and that Jim Jones offered that.
Stanley Clayton, Peoples Temple Member : I went home, told mom — “You know what, this is the right church for me.” It was the next week that I became a member of Peoples Temple. (On-screen text) : Indiana, 1931- 1965 Jim Jones (archival, subtitles) : There’s a little town in Indiana. The moment I think of it a great deal of pain comes. As a child I was undoubtedly one of the poor in the community, never accepted. Born as it were on the wrong side of the tracks. Phyllis Wilmore-Zimmerman, Childhood Friend : I grew up with Jimmy Jones. We started first grade together. My brothers used to go over to Jimmy’s house and hung around his barn, which was where he played. Chuck Wilmore, Childhood Friend : From the time I was five years old, I thought Jimmy was a really weird kid, there was something not quite right. He was obsessed with religion; he was obsessed with death. Phyllis Wilmore-Zimmerman, Childhood Friend : My brothers came back with stories of him conducting funerals for small animals that had died. Chuck Wilmore, Childhood Friend : A friend of mine told me that he saw Jimmy kill a cat with a knife. Well having a funeral for it was a little strange, killing the animal was very strange. Phyllis Wilmore-Zimmerman, Childhood Friend : Jimmy’s father did not work, did not have a job, and was a drunk. Jim’s mother had to work in order to support the family. Jim Jones Jr., Peoples Temple Member : And he was kind of left to his own devices. Kind of the kid who ran wild in the street, you know what I mean? Listen, he was in a dysfunctional
June Cordell, Relative of Peoples Temple Member : It didn’t make no difference what color you were. It was everybody welcome there in that church and he made it very plain from the platform. Eugene Cordell, Relative of Peoples Temple Member : We had some people that disagreed with Jimmy. They got up in the audience and they said they disagreed with him. They did not like this integration part of the services. We did ask people to leave the church one night because of that. Jim Jones Jr., Peoples Temple Member : I was the first Negro child adopted by a Caucasian family in the state of Indiana. Jim and Marceline actually went to adopt a Caucasian child. The story goes that I was crying real loud and it drew attention for Marceline to come over, and once she picked me up, I stopped crying. My family was a template of a rainbow family. We had an African American, we had two American Asian and we had his natural son, homemade. Rev. Garnett Day, Minister : Jim was breaking new ground in race relations at a time when the ground was still pretty hard against that. Jim Jones was hated and despised by some people, particularly in the white community. Fielding McGehee, Relative of Peoples Temple Member : There had been pressures on him to leave Indianapolis. He thought that Indianapolis was too racist of a place for him to be, and he wanted to take his people out. Rebecca Moore, Relative of Peoples Temple Member : California is perceived to be a very progressive state. This would be the place to implement the dream of racial equality. Not Indianapolis, which seems hopeless, but California, which seems to be the Promised Land.
Fielding McGehee, Relative of Peoples Temple Member : He chose Ukiah in northern California — about 90 miles north of San Francisco — because there was an article in Esquire Magazine that said that Ukiah was one of the nine places in the world that in the event of thermonuclear attack, people would survive. Eugene Cordell, Relative of Peoples Temple Member : I told Edith, “If you follow Jimmy to California, you’re crazy.” So what did Jimmy do, but took her to a psychiatrist and sent me a certified letter that she is of sound mind, and she is not crazy. I was there the afternoon that Edith drove away. I didn’t know I’d never see her again. On-screen text : Ukiah, 1965- 1974 Jim Jones Jr., Peoples Temple Member : The move to California was really fun. There were about twelve to fifteen cars driving across United States and making that journey to a place that none of us knew, you know — none of us could even imagine. We were going to California, our new world. On-screen text : Peoples Temple Farm, Ukiah — Redwood Valley, California. Claire Janaro, Peoples Temple Member : When I saw Redwood Valley, I couldn’t believe my eyes because it was like a paradise. It was rural. It was green. There were grape vines everywhere, and I fell in love. I said this is got to be a perfect way to live. Jim Jones (archival) : We started with about a hundred and forty-one people and from that, we’ve grown to a very thriving congregation. We have about every level of society, all socio- economic income strata — professional down to the ordinary field worker, field laborer. Really, it’s beautiful to see that all these divisions have been broken down — not only race, but any differences of economic position.
you a bed?” “But I’ve got nothing but a pension.” “Go and leave your pension behind,” who else will tell you that? Who’ll tell you, “I’ll put you on that bus tomorrow?” Bryan Kravitz, Peoples Temple Member : I heard Jim Jones talking about equality among races, what it’s like living in California, in the Redwood Valley, the good works that they’re doing. Things that, like, I wanted to get involved with, but didn’t even know where to make an entrée. And all of a sudden, the answer was there. Jim Jones (archival) : Somebody is gonna get on the freedom train in Philadelphia! Bryan Kravitz, Peoples Temple Member : He was there for three evenings, and the third evening I went off on the bus and came to California. Garrett Lambrev, Peoples Temple Member : When I joined Peoples Temple in the spring of 1966, there were exactly eighty-one members. Five years later, an extended family of eighty people had become an organization of thousands. Rebecca Moore, Relative of Peoples Temple Member : Peoples Temple really was a black church. It was led by a white minister, but in terms of the worship service, commitment to the social gospel, its membership — it functioned completely like a black church. Jim Jones Jr., Peoples Temple Member : He talked black. He really understood it. He understood how it was to be treated differently. And that’s from his roots coming out of Lynn. Juanell Smart, Peoples Temple Member : When people heard Jim, they didn’t look upon him as being a white preacher, you know. People didn’t look at Jim as being white. He was not white. He was just their preacher.
Jim Jones (archival) : You going to go to Texas with me when I have that campaign? Senior Woman (archival) : I was just wondering whether I could go or not. I would like to go. Jim Jones (archival) : Why of course you’d go, you went to Mexico with me. Deborah Layton, Peoples Temple Member, Author, Seductive Poison : As older people joined, it took a year or so and he’d convince the people that he was doing so much in the community and so why not rather than just tithe your twenty percent, why not sell your home, give the money to the church? And that is what people began to do. Jim Jones (archival) : Now in this church, what have we done in a short time? We have four senior citizens’ homes that are the most innovating, the most beautiful you want to see. Mike Touchette, Peoples Temple Member : They had their own rooms, they had every need taken care of, they had their food provided. They were well looked after. Jim Jones (archival) : Now my home is stone block and there’s not a piece of new furniture in it. But our senior citizen homes, they’re elegant. And that’s beautiful. John R. Hall, Sociologist : They were giving their life’s money and savings to the church, but in exchange, the church was agreeing to take care of them in the community, not just in a nursing home. Neva Sly Hargrave, Peoples Temple Member : Well it got to the point where there were so many duties in the Temple that some people had to become full time. So when you were full- time Temple, you worked about twenty hours a day.
Joyce Shaw-Houston, Peoples Temple Member : The longest I ever stayed awake was six days, and that’s with no coffee, no nothing. Laura Johnston Kohl, Peoples Temple Member : It changed over the years, but it was always busy. Hue Fortson Jr., Peoples Temple Member : Being in an environment where you’re constantly up, you’re constantly busy, and you’re made to feel guilty if you take too many luxuries like sleeping — you tend to not really think for yourself. And I did allow Jones to think for me because I figured that he had the better plan. I gave my rights up to him. As many others did. Jim Jones (archival) : Edie. Fingers, are your fingers numb in your right hand? Reach the fingers out that are bothering you. Now, is the pain gone? Woman (archival) : It’s gone. Hue Fortson Jr., Peoples Temple Member : There was a senior citizen and we nicknamed her Power. He would have her to come up in the midst of one of his meetings, and she used to say, “The man got power. The man got power, ya’ll.” And the whole place would just go wild. Jim Jones (archival) : Take your glasses off. Let’s just dare in our faith. Now look at my face. I love you, the people love you, most importantly Christ loves you. What do you see? Visually-Impaired Woman (archival) : One finger. Jim Jones (archival) : One finger!
Neva Sly Hargrave, Peoples Temple Member : One of the most incredible healings, to me, was this little old lady and she was in a wheelchair. Jim said, “Darlin’, you know, today is your day. We’re going to — you’re going to get healed today.” He said, “We’re going to — we’re going to heal those legs of yours. You’re going to walk again.” And the whole auditorium went totally crazy. Jim Jones (archival) : Come forth, my dear. Stand up. Take that step. Bless your heart. Take that step. Neva Sly Hargrave, Peoples Temple Member : And she takes this real slow, shaky step. She said, “I can feel it.” He said, “Yes, I know you can feel it. Now take your other leg and do it.” And so another real slow, shaky step and he says, “Now I want you to walk toward me.” Jim Jones (archival) : Move forward. Move forward. Move forward, darlin’. You can do it. Neva Sly Hargrave, Peoples Temple Member : And she starts taking forward steps. And pretty soon she is walking. And she starts walking up one of the aisles. And pretty soon she’s running. Well, by this time the whole congregation’s running down these aisles with us — we’re all just running around the aisles, just hoopin’ and hollerin’ up a storm. Later, I found out that this person that I had seen healed and cried with was really one of the secretaries, made up to look crippled and blind. Jim Jones (singing, archival) : Never shall forget what He’s done for me. Oh, what’s he done for me. Oh, what he’s done for me. Oh, what he’s done for me. I never shall forget what he’s done for me. Deborah Layton, Peoples Temple Member, Author, Seductive Poison : For those people that hadn’t grown up in the apostolic world, Jim would say, you know — “I know this is different for you. But for people to come from extremely religious backgrounds — so that I can bring
How is it going? How do you like everything so far?” And, “Oh, I like it a lot.” And, “you know, it’s really cool.” I don’t remember exactly. And he reached up and kind of patted the back of my neck, and he said, “I’ll [expletive] you in the ass if you want.” And I just kind of stammered, “No.” You know, “No.” And he said, “Well, you know, if you ever want that, that’s okay, just let me know and we’ll do that.” Joyce Shaw-Houston, Peoples Temple Member : Jim said that all of us were homosexuals, everyone except — he was the only heterosexual on the planet. And that the women were all lesbians and the guys were all gay. And so anyone that showed any interest in sex was just compensating. Deborah Layton, Peoples Temple Member, Author, Seductive Poison : What he explained to each of us, and in sermons, was that sexual relationships were very selfish and they took away from the focus of the church — and that was to help others. Jim was not celibate. Nobody knew that until perhaps it was their time to find out. What he spoke from the pulpit wasn’t what he did behind the scenes. Hue Fortson Jr., Peoples Temple Member : I remember one night, one of the brothers had stood up and said, “You know, I think everybody that wants Father to [expletive] them in the butt, you need to take an enema first.” I’m telling you the truth man, I’m telling you the truth. And then the question went on, “Well, how many of you in here have had him to do that?” And whether they were lying or just following suit, hands of the men just went up around the room. And I’m sitting there petrified because I’m like, “Is this what it’s leading to, that I’m supposed to get to?” And I’m thinking, “hmmm.” But I played it off like, “Okay, I’m being cool. Okay, if that’s where they at, that’s not where I’m at.” Because I’m thinking, “My wife — I’m happy with my wife. With this sleep I’m not getting, I’m not getting enough anyway.”
Grace Stoen, Peoples Temple Member : One of the powerful things that Jim used, to keep us to not think, was that we were never really allowed to speak with one another. I’d look around and I’d say, “Am I the only one that feels this way?” I learned, eventually, not to say anything to anyone. Jim Jones (archival) : We had a lady who visited us a week ago here and was speaking to one at the door, and she was a member of a prominent church, a pastor’s wife, and she said, “I think that the poor should be made to control how many children they bring into the earth.” You remember? Some leading scientists say, “We have to have euthanasia.” Oh, no. Oh, no. Who’s going to decide who and when a person’s going to die? We must never allow that because this is the kind of thing that ushers in the terror of a Hitler’s Germany. We must not allow these kind of things to enter our consciousness. Jim Jones Jr., Peoples Temple Member : My father used to tell me that people’s lives — sixty percent of people’s lives — were made on emotional decisions. Make your decisions — sixty percent of your decisions — based on logic, fact and reason, and allow emotion to be the secondary motivator. And — we were Star Trek fans. He and I were Star Trek fans, and he used to always say, “Just vulcanize yourself. Just vulcanize yourself.” Joyce Shaw-Houston, Peoples Temple Member : We were celebrating New Years Eve. There were about a hundred and twenty people. Neva Sly Hargrave, Peoples Temple Member : Jim started talking about our cause and he said, “This punch is going to be passed out to everybody here.” We all drank our punch and then he said, “You just drank poison. And we will all die, right here in the church, together as one.” The women were just screaming, “Oh no, my baby, my baby,” and others just sat there. And all of a sudden, Jim says, “That wasn’t poison you drank.”
minutes, with hundreds of people. And we would be enthusiastic. There was an attitude of, “We can change the world.” And that’s what we wanted to do. Marshall Kilduff, Journalist : These people would be on time, they’d be polite and nice. They were a span of ages, a span of races. They were tailor-made for a political rally. To a politician, it was like a birthday cake times twelve. Willie Brown, California State Assemblyman (archival) : You have managed to make the many persons associated with Peoples Temple part of a family. If you are in need of healthcare, you get healthcare. If you’re in need of legal assistance of some sort, you get that. If you’re in need of transportation, you get that. And that’s the kind of religious thing that I am excited about, and have some respect for. Tim Reiterman, Journalist : When vice presidential candidate, Walter Mondale, came to San Francisco, Jim Jones was part of the entourage that boarded his private jet. When Rosalyn Carter came to San Francisco, she gave Jim Jones a private audience. Jim Jones had political power that few people, let alone preachers, could have imagined. Vernon Gosney, Peoples Temple Member : Jim Jones represented the Peoples Temple as a progressive movement that was threatened. That there were outside forces who didn’t want us to do what we were doing. And it was the government. The government was infiltrating and wiretapping and trying to kill people or assassinate people. That’s what was happening. Hue Fortson Jr., Peoples Temple Member : He was always paranoid that someone was going to get in and try to kill him — that they had two people that had dedicated their lives, that they were going to jump in front of Jones and take the bullet, kind of like the secret service so to speak.
Neva Sly Hargrave, Peoples Temple Member : Jim started changing a lot in the seventies. He was taking drugs. I think he said it was his kidneys at the time. And he was getting more and more paranoid. Incredibly paranoid. Vernon Gosney, Peoples Temple Member : There was always threats. Always, always, always, always threats. They were there. They were just about to try to destroy us if we weren’t always viligant [sic] about our movement. There was a fire in the San Francisco Temple. The Temple was burned down and had to be rebuilt. The fire proved they are out to get us. They so don’t want us to do what we’re doing; they’ve burned down the Temple. They’ll do anything to keep us from doing what we’re doing. So we have to be even stronger. Jim Jones (archival) : What about the fact that the Ku Klux Klan has increased one hundred times in its membership? Where? Not Mississippi, I’m talking about New York State. It’s the church’s duty to have a place of protection for its people. Laura Johnston Kohl, Peoples Temple Member : December of ’75, ninety of us went by plane, into Guyana, and saw where we were building the community there. Jim Jones (archival, subtitles) : See, they’ve made progress on the road and leveled it, clear in to five miles. And you’re seeing in the distance, housing complexes, that are being built. Tim Carter, Peoples Temple Member : What I saw that creation as being was building a city where we could move and raise our children, outside of the oppression and the racism of the United States of America. Mike Touchette, Peoples Temple Member : When I first went into Jonestown, it was just a footpath in the rainforest. We had Indians in front of us with machetes, and we had Indians
